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>> and heather pitching in for jenna lee. thank you for being here. >> jon, nice to be with you, "america live" starts right now with megyn kelly. have a great day everyone. >> bye-bye. >> megyn: thanks, guys. fox news alert fallout from the presidential news conference and the growing concerns on washington's spending crisis as the president pressures congress to raise the debt ceiling. welcome to "america live" everyone, i'm megyn kelly. in the final news conference of his first term, the president moments ago demanding that the republicans increase this debt limit, against which he voted, he voted against raising it when he was a senator, but demanding they do differently than he did or else. major jarrett, now, cbs news, challenged the president on his own track record on this issue. >> as you well know, sir, finding votes for the debt ceiling can sometimes be complicated, you yourself as a member of the senate voted against the debt ceiling

increase, and in previous aspects of american history, president reagan in 1985, president george herbert walker bush, and president clinton, deals contingent upon raising the debt ceiling and you yourself, related to debt or budget related maneuvers. and what many people are curious about the new adamant desire on your part not to negotiate that seems to conflict with the entire hire in the modern era of the presidents and the debt ceiling and your own debt ceiling and doesn't it suggest we're going into a default situation because no one is talking to each other about this. >> no, major, i think if you look at the history. getting votes for the debt ceiling is difficult and votes in in town are difficult. i went through this last year. what is different we never saw a situation like we saw last

year in which certain groups in congress took such an absolutist position that we came within a few days of defaulting. >> lou dobbs is the host of lou dobbs tonight on the fox business network. lou, welcome back. what an extraordinary exchange we saw the president have on that issue. basically his position was, we're raising the debt ceiling whether congress wants to or not. i'm not negotiating with them on it. i'm not following what speaker boehner said is the boehner rule of for every dollar we increase the debt limit there will be a spending cut and i'm not going to let them put a gun at the heads of american people because in his terms, they refuse to pay the bills that they've agreed to pay and when asked about the fact that he himself voted against raising the debt limit back in 2006 when he was a senator he seemed to say that was somehow different than this because-- i'm not sure why. but it's somehow different than this. your thoughts?

>> my thoughts, well, to begin with, the president absolutely no sense of irony about his record history or, if you will, the particular, i think, extraordinary contradiction in his career which has been -- it was only just over six years ago that as a u.s. senator he was voting against the debt ceiling increase and now as a president, just about four years from having assumed office, he will have almost doubled the national debt in his first term as president of the united states., as at least allowed by the debt ceiling. what he was really saying, it seemed to me, megyn, the only antidote and the only possible response for this very carefully thought out president, when it comes to the absolutism of the republicans is to meet with with absolutism of his own,

both intransigent, both irrational to change over time. >> the president in 2006, the sign that the leadership failure, a sign that the u.s. can't pay its own bill and financial assistance to reckless policies. leadership means that the buck stops here and he goes on tosayt it. now, that's, that was his position back then. >> right. >> megyn: he was saying no, period. no, to an increase in the debt limit. the republicans in the house now are saying, not know, yes if we put in place some spending cuts. so, it's not an absolute no on their part, it's we'll give you what you want if you put in place spending cuts, but he seems to think that that position is more extreme than flat out no back in '06. >> it becomes habitual with this president, megyn, that he described his opponents political or otherwise, in terms from which they have no,

no possible justification, no rationalization. he says if your common sense, when it comes to gun ownership, then you have to see my way. it has to be my way and if not, then you obviously have no common sense. he is saying, the republicans, they are extremists because they want to achieve different goals than does he. he has taken on this position, these polimical positions that are stultifying in the political process and secondly disingenuous to the extreme and unproductive on the whole. and he is setting the groundwork for what will be a rather spectacular collision between the republicans and his administration, but one that is sure, in my opinion at least, to weigh heavily on his legacy. this is a man who is, i think, as we listen to some of the wording in his comments today,

beginning to understand he's not going to have it his way, despite the grandiocity of the gun control reform or clean clear vote on the debt ceiling. >> megyn: i'm going to ask you, number one about tone and you seem to be getting to it. about tone, suggesting that he and the republicans aren't agreeing what to do about spending because the republicans look with suspicion on people who receive medicaid, on people who receive social security, on college students who need loans, that they look with suspicion, the questioning of motive. >> he has run that horse, i think, just about into the ground and now it's time for the spca to step in. >> megyn: to protect the horse in the ground. i get it. took me a minute. >> this is not just a president right now. he needs new material, he needs a fresh look and he does, as he's starting to

demonstrate, need a new tone. there was a tone of acknowledgment that at least congress is an independent sovereign body of this constitutional republic today. that was a big step forward in his progress, i think an important change in tone. >> megyn: and my last question for you quickly he's put in place, 3.25 in place of deficit reduction, a little short of 4 trillion we need, but he would have the american public believe he's significantly reduced our deficit as president. >> which makes you wonder why we need another 2 trillion dollars so desperately now as we are getting ready for the beginning of his second term. obviously, that's 2 1/2 trillion that is, well, fanciful in my opinion and ethereal in others and it's not a reduction in baseline, it's a reduction in the rate of growth of spending, which is again suffocating to the private economy and unsustainable over the course

of the next several years. >> megyn: one thing we did hear the president reference personally, we heard it from nancy pelosi prior, but the president personally talking about now closing more loopholes and that means higher taxes. we don't know on who, but he would not specify any specific spending reductions and refusing to negotiate with the house republicans on the issue of the debt ceiling. lou, an interesting couple of months. looking forward to it. >> megyn: all right. thank you, sir. >> thanks, megyn. >> megyn: with the president refuse to go negotiate on that debt ceiling, it's coming and we're going to hit it and there's going to be a real question what we will do. he negotiated the last time and suddenly says he doesn't want to negotiate anymore and the republicans have drawn a line in the sand when it comes to these spending cuts, saying, if we don't see a dollar for dollar spending cut in the amount you want to raise the debt ceiling, there's no deal. what kind of progress can we hope for here? our political panel debates that coming up in our next hour. now to another big debate playing out in washington over the obama administration's

efforts to overhaul the nation's gun laws. we heard some of that this morning. here is the president addressing this issue during a white house news conference, we mentioned, moments ago. >> what you can count on is that the things that i've said in the past, the belief that we have to have stronger background checks, that we could do a much better job in terms of keeping these magazine clips with high capacity out of the hands of folks who shouldn't have them, an assault weapons ban that's meaningful that those are things i continue to believe make sense. >> megyn: new york senator chuck schumer is going a step further than the administration. now calling on wal-mart and other retailers to suspend sales of some types of weapons that are now perfectly legal until washington can come up with a new gun control policy. requests like that may be adding to the concern from gun owners as several gun shows around the country report record turnout. in fact, the president was

asked about the growing number of gun sales. he suggested it was based on hype and spin being put out there by opponents, but you've got chuck schumer going to places like wal-mart saying, please stop selling the guns you're right now legally allowed to sell. there's a question about what's causing the consternation among gun owners. check out the lines in san francisco and ohio as people waited in line to get guns. william la jeunesse live from los angeles with more, william? >> reporter: well, megyn, there was actually a bidding war outside a police sponsored gun buyback event in new mexico. overcrowding shut down a gun show in arizona. well, here in california lawmakers want to limit how many bullets you can buy, well, gun owners swamped a gun show looking for weapons and ammunition. >> i'm not super pro gun, but i still feel like i wanted to get one before they're illegal to get. >> yeah, and basically that's the feeling everyone has, you better get it while you can. >> a gun show in san francisco, the buying frenzy

is obviously driving prices through the roof. >> aisles are packed. >> and folks are nervous, get in there and get what they can. >> and many left empty handed. >> ammunition, can't find tthe shelves are bare. >> december gun sales-- >> and obama is going to go for the guns. >> that fear is why ammunition prices doubled, assault weapons costing 600 now fetch $1200. around the country, high capacity magazines are sold out. >> i think they're going to been the-- ban mags and stop you from trying to buy the hunting rifles and then it will be your pistols, your .38's, grandma runs around the streets with. >> i do not answer my door at eight o'clock at night without a gun in my hand. >> california already bans magazines over ten rounds and requires a ten-day waiting period and universal criminal background checks including buyers at gun shows. >> people have become used to it, they recognize that's the

way it is and they know that when they come to a gun show, they've got to abide by the same laws as they would at a store. >> and it may show blue, but some are seeing red. >> they're not taking my gun away, but they might as well because i can't find ammunition. >> and three recommendations you should expect on tuesday or this week, number one, a ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines and a background check at gun shows, all gun shows, but critics say is that reducing the gun violence, three things, less than 2% of crimes are committed with assault weapons, that most bailsically murders are committed with less than three bullets and finally, less than 1% of crime guns come from gun shows, megyn. >> megyn: william, thanks. one conservative radio host says this fight over firearms pushing him to the brink. >> i can barely contain my fury about what's going on in this country. i'm just being honest. i can barely contain it.

i'm so frustrated by this tyranny, you have no idea. >> megyn: we will ask mark levin why he's so worried about where this debate is going and what he means by tyranny when he joins us live. and a debate over what place religion has with reading, writing and arithmetic, as one teacher loses, well, she loses a major fight with her school after hanging a quote from president reagan on the wall, calling for america one nation under god. >> i believe my first amendment rights were violated last june when i was asked to do some things, regarding taking some posters down and sensor my speech in the classroom as a christian and an american i believe it's fight to protect the right that people have died to give me. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.

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a big report on a group of liberal activists, including michael bloom, larry cowan and from the naacp, trust me, big wigs in the liberal circle. this report says these guys and others met privately to form a coalition to push the president's agenda. in response, some bloggers are asking what the media would have done if conservative groups had done something similar under president bush and where exactly is this group going with its new collective agenda? steve hays a writer for the weekly standard and fox news contributors. they get together behind closed doors and in search of economic justice, a term of art in liberal circles and emerge with a self-imposed mandate to do what? it sounds like they have three main goals. >> yeah, well, it certainly sounds like they want to push the president further to the left as he begins his second term. what's fascinating about this story, as you pointed out, first reported by mother jones, which was a participant

in these meetings in what they deemed a noneditorial capacity. what's so interesting about this is that it wasn't picked up, it wasn't reported. >> megyn: no. >> despite the presence of all of these, you know, big swingers in progressive movement, mainstream newspapers didn't really report it, didn't pick up on it, didn't even i guess find out about it or think it was news worthy. >> megyn: and if you want to put that four block up again, and brewen is a sierra club director. cowan a union guy, and radford greenpeace, they were big wigs on the left. they say they want to do three things, get big money out of politics, a big goal, expand the voting rules while fighting voter i.d. laws, a big issue before november and they want to rewrite senate republicans to curbing the filibuster, and can i start with the last one steve, the last one from president obama so frustrated with these house republicans, to harry reid, who is actually talking about

curbing or to some extent eliminating the senate filibuster so that the minority in the senate can't block his legislation and president obama's legislation. they seem so frustrated with the rights of the minorities, with the rights of the dissenters, i know it's frustrating, but is it not a pillar of this country's backbone? i mean, this is-- when they're in the minority, they may be very sorry that they went to such efforts to eliminate these rights. >> i think they would be. i think their assumption is they're not going to be in the minority anytime soon, but if you go back and look at the kinds of things that both democrats in congress and outside liberal agitators were saying when democrats were the minority, and harry reid took to the senate floor numerous times to call it an abuse of the majority when republicans were pushing things. so, both parties flip sides on this, but it's fascinating to look at this in the broader context of the 2014 elections,

and even after 2016, where i think what the liberal groups hope to do right now is consolidate their victories in 2012 and expand on them over the next four years. >> megyn: to what extent can they accomplish these goals? because these are not moneyless, powerless groups? these are heavy hitters and now going to work together and they say it's up to 30 to 35 groups that are going to work together to accomplish these goals. >> we've seen that the president has been responsive to pushes from his left in his first term. if you look, for instance, at what happened with the keystone pipeline, there were basically threats by the environmental groups that they were not going to take their access out, not going door-to-door for the president if in tactful fact backed the keystone pipeline. i'm not sure you can drawing a correlation between those two, but there's no question that that agitation had an influence on the white house and with the president and we've seen that with other

groups and i think that's exactly what they're trying to do now, make sure that the president governs as far to the left as he ran in 2012 and i think it pulled him further to the left, they'd love to do that. >> megyn: and another time that the strong liberal groups have joined together to get what they want when they formed health care for america now, and that worked out pretty well for them. so they have a pretty good track record when they get together like this. those are big goals, getting big money out of politics? i mean. >> the irony what are they going to do to do it? they're going to use their big money to get big money out of politics. primarily conservative big money and business big money. >> megyn: got a couple of years until the next presidential election, a little less until we get to those 2014 mid terms, can you believe we're already talking about that. thank you, steve. and coming up, joint chief colin powell, joint chief chair, made news yesterday when he blasted his own party as having a quote, dark vein

of intolerance toward some minority groups. coming up we'll look at his specific complaints. and a live look at the home of lance armstrong where the disgraced cyclist is reportedly gearing up to give what may be an apology or an admission. and...what!!?? an article that says a typical family pays $155,000 in "wall street" fees on their 401(k)s? seriously? seriously. you don't believe it? search it, "401k 155k." then go to e-trade. and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. we have every type of retirement account. none of them charge annual fees, and all of them offer low cost investments. e we're not of them charge your typical wall street firm, that's why. so you keep more of your money. e-trade. less for us. more for you.

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>> well, at this moment in austin, texas, lance armstrong is sitting down with oprah winfrey. the winner of seven tour de france titles and later found out it was fraudulent, is expected to offer a limited confession about the use of performance enhancing drugs. after the cyclist went from being the poster child from overcoming adversity to what looks to be a case study in fraud and dishonesty. trace gallagher with more from the west coast bureau, trace? >> reporter: it's unclear exactly when they sat down for the interview. we know it's 90 minutes and

oprah's people contacted us, the hope is to keep it very buttoned up and don't expect any quotes or clips at least for the the time being, but again, it's 90 minutes, thursday night on oprah's network. this is the first interview that lance armstrong sat down for since his 7th tour de france titles were stripped away and by the way, a look at his house in austin, texas. we know his legal team is on hand for the interview and lance armstrong sent a text to associated press saying, i'm quoting here, i told her, oprah winfrey, to go wherever she wants and i'll answer the questions, directly, honestly and candidly. the question is how candidly. reportedly he will only give, as you said, megyn, a limited confession and apologize. he's not going to get into the detailed account of his exact involvement. armstrong, as you know, has denied for more than a decade using any kind of steroids or doping at all, but in that 1,000 page report issued by the u.s. anti-doping agency,

it laid out a very compelling contrarian view calling him quote, the master mind of the most sophisticated doping program ever, including steroids, blood boosters, masking agents. he is facing significant legal problems as well, including several lawsuits for several million dollars, though he may outlast a lot of the statute of limitations on perjury, it's a fair chance that he could face charges from the federal government for fraud because remember, the post office sponsored his tour de france team. he still has 100 million dollar value, megyn and people are saying, that his foundation, which has really been beaten up by this whole scandal, is a big reason why he's coming out and if he fe fesses up, there's a chance that the ada and doping association could let him campaign again in as few as three or four years and that might be the biggest motivation as to why he is reportedly coming clean to

some extent today. >> megyn: it would have to be a bigger confession than apologize to anyone i may have offended and i did some things of which i'm ashamed, but not all the other things they have he' accused me. to get back in, he'd really have to take responsibility for what these officials say was a disgusting and several-year fraudulent scheme to take moneys to which he is not entitled and credit ab fame to which he's not entitled and steal victories out of the hands of other participants who we do not believe were doping. >> reporter: but to respond to this 1,000-page documents and incriminating he's got a team of lawyer we know at least four lawyers are standing by during the interview, not on camera, but unlikely they're going to let him go into each and every detail when he doped, how he doped and masked it. >> megyn: not going to do it, he's not going to do it. he's been denying it, doing nothing, but denying under

oath repeatedly and suing people who say otherwise. who is it, like 24 of his other teammates, some ridiculously high number of other witnesses came forward to talk to the world bodies and saying we're telling you, not only is he doing it, but he was a tough task master on the rest of us to cover it up and put a lot of us through hell if we refused to. he was the ring master of this. doping scheme according to the authorities. >> reporter: 11 teammates, 24 in total, but 11 tour de france teammates and he never failed a single drug tests in 500 tests, they say because he was clever in masking it. >> megyn: you cannot fail a test and cheat your way to a good grade, i guess if that's the standard. trace, thanks. >> reporter: okay. >> megyn: just ask my old friend kelly from 10th grade chemistry glass. (laughter) kelly, you know what i'm talking about. coming up, the high profile launching a blistering attack

against his own party. why colin powell says the party has a dark vein against minorities, in particular president obama. plus hundreds of families signing up to join a community where their freedoms and liberties will be fiercely protected. we have a closer look at the story behind this. and new questions about religious rights in the classroom, why one christian teacher was forced to remove certain items from her room, including a quote from former president ronald reagan. now she's suing. >> determined that the items weren't appropriate and that the items needed to be removed.

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>> fox news alert as we get word that former president george h.w. bush has been discharged from the houston hospital. mr. bush spent some time over the holidays being treated for bronchitis, an infection and a stubborn cough. he's expected to continue physical therapy, but said his only concern heading home is -- his only concern is heading home. he also said that he regretted not being able to thank all the friends and fellow americans who shared kind words during his recovery and we wish him the very best. former secretary of state colin powell made news while he accused his own party, affirm being he's still a republican of racism and

bigotry. and the g.o.p. lost the last two election because a shift to the right and racist string within the republican party. there's also a dark, a dark vein of intolerance within in republican party. what do i mean by that? they still sort of look down on minorities, how can i say that when i see someone say the president is shuckin' and jiving. that's is a slave term. and in the debate didn't do very well, said that the president is lazy. he didn't say he was slow, he was tired, he didn't do well. he said he was lazy. now, that may not mean anything to most americans, but to those of us who are african-americans, the second word is shiftless and that's the third word that goes along with it. and the whole birther movement. why do senior leaders tolerate this kind of discussion within

the party? >> joining me now, brad layton former assistant to george w. bush and marjorie clifton, clifton consulting. brad. let me start with you, here is a guy who worked for the same president you worked for and starts the interview saying he's still a republican, but, whoa, with friends like that within the republican party, who needs enemies? he was not kind on your party. your thoughts on his accusations? >> i reject it and i say to secretary powell, if our party was like that, why would you consistently call yourself a republican? and if our party was like that, or you perceived it to be that way, what have you done to change it? did you run for office? no. were you a delegate at the convention, no. did you speak at the convention, no. did you try to sponsor the platform. the answer no. he supported barack obama in two elections. when is a republican a republican? i don't think the secretary is a republican he thinks he is. i think he's become an armchair general when it comes

to the republican party and i think it's easy to send accusations out, but i don't believe that there's any basis of fact to what he perceives to be a problem, an endemick problem in the republican party, i reject it. >> megyn: margery, you can go and find individual comments by anybody on either side if you want to make his-- the examples he used, the birther issue, the whole thing unto itself. those terms, lazy, that's, that's a matter of perception, and a matter of opinion. but let's say all of those remarks are super racist, you can do that for either side and try to tar the whole party with it. >> well, and i think there's a danger in saying that he's not a republican and using a test, and what i think he's doing, i think he genuinely wants to improve things for the republican party and his taking a stand on this issue is his way of doing that. you look at the facts, only 6% of african-americans are registered as republican. as we saw in the elections

there is a lot of work to do with latinos and we saw a shift since the bush administration where 44 to 45% of voters were latino, or i'm sorry, the latino population were voting for president bush. and since then, there's been a large shift. so, i think what he's speaking to is a genuine desire to see a shift and an opening, a broadening of the tent for republicans. and you have to look at his experience as well, coming on the backs of the golden globes where "lincoln" won a ton of awards. lincoln, with recent history and slavery and segregation really is. colin powell when he was a military officer couldn't get a hotel room because he was a black man. his sensitivity towards the language like this is understandable. same way as a woman when someone said i had to recently opt out of a trip to afghanistan because my daughter was two weeks old, i thought, gosh that hurts to hear because opt out is a rough word for a woman and for him as an african-american man, absolutely, and i think he's trying to do -- i think he's thinking of the best interests of the party. >> megyn: your thoughts on

that? >> i don't at all. as a matter of fact, if you look at the policies of the democrats, they've hurt minorities. look at the unemployment rate among african-americans in the cities, double the national average. so when you're talking about policy versus rhetoric, the republican party has been, if anything, open. look at the fantastic minorities we have not only serving in government, but supporting our party. people like bobby jindal and the governor of new mexico, governor martinez, and senator marco rubio. we've got tremendous representation and to say that some of these words that were taken out of context are somehow what the republican credo is, what our platform is, we reject that. we reject the birthers, we reject anybody within our party who makes disparaging comments against anyone. >> megyn: what about that, he says why aren't republican leaders speaking out, like, there's so many comments you could point to on the democratic side and people are

out of line and democratic leaders don't speak out. >> there's examples on both sides. the whole point is not to reject, but to embrace and listen. i think what has to happen is a cultural shift within both parties, absolutely, but certainly within the republican party when you look at the numbers in terms of embracing more minorities at grass roots level not just the leadership level. >> megyn: let me jump in and ask you about that. there's a theory among some, it doesn't matter how embracing the republicans are of the african-american voters their policies are most likely not going to appeal to a large section of those voters today, tomorrow, four years from now. >> i think culturally sometimes people label themselves with one party or the other and some of it is policy-driven. i think that's where some of the listening needs to and and both party's part, the swing to the extre doing any favors getting legislation passed that is necessary, immigration reform one of the key things both parties are talking about, both

republicans and democrats understand how necessary that is. >> megyn: quick last word? >> as republicans we take no group for granted and we should be reaching out to every group to be part of the republican party because it's crazy to say that african-americans will not have an affinity to our party. they certainly do. and we're seeing that every day with the type of candidates we're fielding and the length and breadth we're going to to encourage them to come into the republican party. under the obama policies they are hthey're not doing any better than they were four or five years ago. >> megyn: i've got to leave it at that. >> thanks, megyn. >> megyn: a new debate over religion in our classrooms after one teacher was force today remove certain items from her classroom, including a quote from former president ronald reagan about one nation under god. her story is next. and some who disagree with him on the issues, gun control, are holding ideas, absurd and out of touch and contraire toy what the american people want. radio host mark levin is ahead

on what he says is an imperial president, exercising authority he simply does not have. >> from an emotional point of view, it's just so damn infuriating to see the greatest country on the face of the earth run by fusions cons standpointly attacking it from within.

>> well, there's a new debate on religion in the classroom, after a public school teacher in new york was forced to remove inspirational posters. she received a counseling letter informing here if she did not take down the listed item, including a quote from former president reagan, she'd be fired. miss silver is now suing. >> i believe that my first amendment rights were violated last june when i was asked to do some things regarding taking some posters down and to sensor my speech in the

classroom, and as a christian and as an american, i believe it's incredibly important to fight to protect the rights that people have died to give me. >> megyn: the chief counsel for the center for law and justice, not involved in this case, but handled many like it. jay, welcome back. and she had posters with religious messages and quotes with bible quotes, post-its on his desk and in teaching biology and she apparently mentioned adam and eve and mentioned a bible verse, she mentioned paul's first letter, paul's first letter to corinthian, stand true to what you believe and the ronald reagan thing talking without god democracy cannot endure. did she run afoul of the establishment clause? >> i don't think so, i've argued 40 major religion cases

involving this exact kind of thing at the supreme court of the united states. and megyn, look, i think it's overkill. an eight-page counseling letter because she has a verse, mentioned a quote from corinthians, what is in that quote that is creating a constitutional crisis. >> megyn: stand true to what you believe. >> stand true to what you believe, do good. and do it in love. those are things that are going to establish a national religion in america? this is, i think, overstatement. i think what's happened here is, and i'm happy to say that these cases are rare now and they have been for the last few years, but the fact of the matter is that this school district's basically treating religion like it's as bebestos n the ceiling tiles and the students have a constitutional rights and so do teachers. the famous quote from the supreme court over 50 years ago neither students nor teachers sun remember den the

rights to freedom of speech at the schoolhouse gates and she's got personal messages on her desk inspirational to her, why is that creating an eight-page counseling letter. >> megyn: one thing to have posters on the wall, a fair debate about that, but the post-it notes she looks at on her desk? i think i remember seeing you at the supreme court when mche creery versus aclu. >> yeah. >> megyn: one of the ten commandments, some have posted the ten commandments on the county board, and tried to paper them up with historical documents. >> right. >> megyn: the liberal rules in the case together, the case in which the liberals of the high court bound together to say the first amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and nonreligion. and justice scalia went ballistic saying that's nuts, we have it on our coins, in god we trust. and we open the sessions god

bless this honorable court and the house start the sessions with prayer and nothing in our history to suggest they wanted neutrality between religion and nonreligion. >> well, there's one thing they certainly did not want the founders of our country and that's hostility towards religion and i had a subsequent ten commandment case which we won unanimously, the idea, again, posting ten commandments did not create a constitutional crisis. the court has been in conflict on the ten commandments cases and you pointed that out correctly. our national motto, in god we trust. if the school district posts that in the classroom are we saying that's a violation of separation of church and state of the establishment clause? if she had posters up that quote ronald reagan who in his speech mentions god, that forbidden and we've got a great constitutional crisis going on? i think that everybody needs to take a deep breath here, especially the school district and that the overreaction is an understatement. the teachers filed a lawsuit because she feels like her rights have been violated and

it's not neutrality towards religion it's hostility towards religion and the idea that you can ignore the religious history of america, and i pointed that out in my last supreme court argument in a religion case, the idea we can ignore the religious history of america, ignores the reality of the american experience. >> megyn: justice scalia pointed out in the same week that the congress submitted the establishment clause as part of the bill of rights, it enacted a law for paid chaplains in the house and senate. the idea that they wanted no part for religion in the public square just is belied by the history and tell me quickly, i've got to go. it's a law, not the majority and that case held the first amendment mandates neutrality between religion and nonreligion, you can't-- >> and again, i think the retalent is that we've got to protect religious freedom period, neutrality can be used as a whipsaw against religion, but at the end of the day protecting religious freedoms protects this teachers and that's what you have here. >> megyn: see how it goes. jay, thanks.

>> thanks, megyn. >> megyn: a controversial idea picking up steam after a group in eyed low outlines plans for a barricaded community that promises no background checks, no down payments and no taxes and hundreds have already signed up next. i'm not juice or fancy water. i've gotine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story.

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>> well, there's a move underway in idaho by a group of people who want to start their own community. they're calling this place the citadel, they say a place where families can live together and teach their children in patriotism and privacy. trace gallagher has the details. >> reporter: citadel means fortress and that's pretty much what it is. developers are hoping to acquire this year, 2 to 3,000 acres in the western mountains of idaho north of boise and then take that land and they would build a huge perimeter around the whole thing and

several smaller perimeters around the neighborhood and turrets and attract 3 to 7,000 families who quoting here, voluntarily choose to live together in accordance with thomas jefferson's ideal of right to liberty. basically means neighbors keep their noses out of other neighbor's business. the community would be designed to survive catastrophe like hurricane katrina. and they'd be responsible for the outside structural, but you would be responsible for the inside home and you would lease on it for a lifetime. and no credit checks, no down payment, zero interest, zero property taxes and $200 application fee and so far,

200 families have already applied. if you want to apply you should know this, quote, markists, socialists, liberals, and establishment republicans may find living within our citadel community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred life style and by the way if you want to apply you also would have to be interviewed before they would let you move into this community. >> megyn: oh, i'd love to be a fly on the wall in the interviews and love to hear how that goes. all right, trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. >> megyn: fascinating. well, as the gun debate rages on, people across this country are emptying store shelves and flocking to gun shows, look at the lines, they wrap around the blocks. chris stirewalt is next on this growing dynamic that's emerging. and new questions whether a newspaper's controversial gun permit map aided burglars in a robbery attempt. where folks who lawfully own gun permits live in two new york counties and we'll tell you what happens and what the

thieves were apparently after coming up. and hundreds of people hunting down the burmese pythons, and experts say how safe florida's fragile eco systems, and they're amateurs.

>> fox news alert. president obama today suggesting he may rewrite some of america's gun laws with the stroke of a pen. welcome to a brand new hour of "america live" everyone, i'm megyn kelly. vice-president joe biden huddling with house members one day before he is to make a recommendation to the president and how to curb gone violence. the leaders of the task force hand picked by nancy pelosi, including proponent of gun control. not all may need presidential approval. listen to what the president said in his news conference about an hour and a half ago. >> i'm confident there are steps we can take that don't require legislation and that are within my authority as

president and where you get a step that had the opportunity to reduce the possibility of gun violence. then i want to go ahead and take it. >> megyn: chris stirewalt is our fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on foxnews.com, chris, that executive action may becoming more and more important because it seems to be, and when you read the article coming out of capitol hill today, that they don't believe the votes are there for some comprehensive gun control legislation. they don't think they've got it so we may be left with only executive action on this. >> right, at the beginning, megyn, we thought that this was going to be a moment where the gaps started to bridge on this subject and people were talking about a comprehensive bill and again, if joe biden had been meeting today with let's say joe manchin n.r.a. backed senator from west virginia or john dingell n.r.a. backed from michigan and groups pro gun, maybe they're going to try to do a big deal, maybe try to do

something comprehensive, but it looks like and certainly sounded like from the president from his tone and the press conference today that he recognizes it's not likely that the measure has the votes to get through congress and he's going to do what he can and do it his own way. >> megyn: what do you expect that to mean? he talked about it a little today. he didn't go to the controversial place. but it didn't sound like something's really going to upset the gun lobby in the way na, you know, high capacity magazine restrictions would upset them or extensive background checks would upset them. >> well, we don't know what the vice-president -- could be as soon as today that the vice-president hands over his recommendations to the president. we don't know what all is in there. and certainly the vice-president was very enthusiastic about the idea of forcing private sellers, when a person, one person sells a gun to another person, that they would have to submit to a federal background check. he was very enthusiastic about that idea. could that be in there? we don't know the president has leeway when it comes to

pr promulgating legislation. and the bullets and rounds. and we don't know. right now, what's happening is that people who are pro gun are assuming and expecting the worst. >> megyn: and we see these lines stretching around the block in different places for folks to get in and get their guns because they believe some sort of restriction are coming. the president was asked about that and he seemed to say it was because of misinformation out there to rile people believe that they're going to lose the right to own their gun. the same time you've got chuck schumer, democratic senator from new york, urging wal-mart to stop selling the guns it legally has the right to sell right now before any legislation or executive order comes our way. >> the president went a little farther than that, i'd argue,

he said basically intentional, this was a cynical desire to make money and that the scare tactics were being used in order for arms manufacturers to profit. i guess that's who he was talking about. and it's interesting, it goes back to this problem, people in favor of gun control often times don't understand the thinking of the other side and the president there in ascribing a cynical motive that it's not a dearly held belief that this is a god given right, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but instead this is a cynical effort to exploit people's fears to sell more guns. that did not sound like the language of somebody trying to do a deal. it sound like somebody that is trying to jam this on the executive said. >> megyn: the president took a lot of heat when he was running for president in 2008 and bitterly cling to their guns in that and led a lot of people to start their relationship with him believing that he didn't understand their relationship to guns and why that

relationship is important to them. in the meantime, and i want to-- if i had a second with you, i want to go down a side road. because i asked lou dobbs about this an hour ago and i want to ask you as our guru, dismissive side's motives and not understanding importance of guns to folks. there was a tone in the press conference that was confrontational with republicans and maybe dismissive of their beliefs? how would you describe it? >> crabby, i guess i would say. one of the most astute political watchers i know said we've seen this obama before and we saw him in the first presidential debate with mitt romney. the president definitely seemed crabby, definitely seemed like he was annoyed at the tenor and nature of the questions and got frustrated with a little of it and basically was saying when it comes to the debt ceiling, when it comes to guns, whatever else, that his

adversaries, aren't offering legitimate alternatives and aren't having legitimate discussions, therefore it's okay if you circumvent them. if you blow past them because he's come to the conclusion, it sounded like, that the republicans aren't going to deal so they're not worth dealing with. >> megyn: he talked about, chris, something we've heard him before, it seems like whenever he's asked about conflicts with republicans he goes back to the well, i ran on this and i won. we've heard him say that about increasing taxes on the rich. heard him talk about that with respect to the debt ceiling. he seems to be mentioning that with respect to the gun control. i mean, the president seems to believe that because he won reelection his entire agenda has been blessed by the american electorate. >> to some degree he's right and certainly true on the tax rates. he did campaign on that because it was part of his character attacks on mitt romney talking about low taxes for wealthy people, was part and parcel of his attack on mitt romney so he did talk about that. that's fair. he didn't talk much about gun control when he was out on the campaign trail.

and certainly didn't talk a lot about the debt limit when he was out on the trail. so, he's trying to build out a mandate one step at a time. he's right on the tax stuff. on the other stuff it'd be pretty hard for him to make an argument that the american he people voted for gun control or unconditional increases in borrowing. >> megyn: back on the issue of gun control to leave it at this, vice-president biden is going to give recommendations we understand tomorrow to the president, as he's been known to do, put his foot in his mouth a bit on friday when he said the following: . >> we know there's, there's no silver bullet and there's no, as one of my friends said, no seat belt to put on to assure you will not be in this circumstance again. i'm going to be submitting to the president i think a proposal as to how to proceed. i'm shooting for tuesday, hope i can get it done by then. >> megyn: and the hits on the tape how it came to us. the vice-president talking the

gun proposal, no silver bullet, but shooting for tuesday, the recommendations. thoughts on that, chris? >> we're grateful to vice-president biden, we're grateful to vice-president biden, all i'll say. >> megyn: thank you for being here, chris. >> bye. >> megyn: by the way, check out chris' opinions on power play and we mentioned that, see, there he is, and taking off his mic now, but in any event, go to power play and he's always got interesting thoughts. in the middle of this gun debate a new york newspaper decided to publish an interactive map showing all the local gun permit holders in two counties. they determined where they lived and home address ins two big counties just north of new york city and today we're learning that burglars broke into the home of one of the home owner's, and the target was reportedly the home

owner's gun safe. trace gallagher picks it up. >> reporter: and when the journal news first published names and addresses of the gun permit holders north of new york city, you had elected officials coming out and gun rights advocates coming out saying this was going to help criminals. 9:30 saturday night two burglars used a ladder to break into the upper window after home that was pinpointed on that very data base you're seeing now. the burglars were reportedly targeting the gun safe of the home owner, they did not get into that. the home owner in his 70's was not home at the time. he has not yet commented, but police have arrested one suspect and are now investigating exactly what the role the data base played in this decision to target the home. right now they say it's speculation. the map was published two days before christmas, ten days after the newtown shooting, and a new york state lawmaker now says that he will introduce a bill to keep gun owners' names private because

he says the interactive map is an invasion of privacy, megyn and that it's also dangerous for gun owners. >> megyn: wow, all right, trace, thank you. fox news alert as we get reports that cycling, one time legend, now he's been disgraced, lance armstrong has apparently apologized to the staff of his livestrong foundation before sitting down with oprah winfrey in a highly anticipated interview today. armstrong's interview is largely expected to feature a full-on public apology. there were reports at least it might. after running what investigators say was one of the most sophisticated doping rings in professional sports history. that's all we're learning so far, there may have been an apology to the livestrong staff, but for what? it just says he did it before the interview with ms. winfrey. he's sitting there with four lawyers in this interview. what he apologizing for, admitting anything, the negative press his behavior generated? for what?

we don't know. we're bringing the first leaked reports, we'll get it. conservative radio host mark levin says this fight over gun rights is pushing him to the brink. >> just telling from you an emotional point of view, it is just so damn infuriating to seat greatest country in the the face of the earth run by a punch of little fusions that are constantly attacking it from within. >> megyn: he joins us live right after this break to show why he's worried about more than gun rights. and a follow-up we told you about, the key development in a massive salary scandal in a town where the city manager was raking in more than $800,000 a year, a blue collar town where they were basically taking huge advantage of their constituents. an update for that case. and the professor who set up a nationwide controversy after suggesting that the connecticut school massacre in newtown may have been staged. why the university is standing by him. should this guy be fired? kelly's court.

>> i said i think that there may very well be elements of that, that are synthetic to some degree, that are somewhat contrived. i think overall that the media really did drop the ball. i don't think that they got to the bottom of some of the things that may have taken place there. i'm up next, but now i'm sging the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is!

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a progress-oh! makeover in hollywood. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. at legalzoom, we've created a better place to handle your legal needs. maybe you have questions about incorporating a business you'd like to start. or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along,

answer any questions and offer advice. with an "a" rating from the better business bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. in most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected. >> i'll be honest, i told a friend of mine. i sit behind this microphone and i can barely contain it, i'm so frustrated by this tyranny, you have no idea. we can analyze it, intellectualize it, parce and so forth unravel it, but from an emotional point of view it's so damn infuriating to seat greatest country on the pace of the earth run by pucians attacking it from within. >> megyn: that was radio talk

show star mark levin complaining about the gun debate and reports that the president will use executive orders to rewrite part of the gun laws. as you heard his complaints go beyond the guns and extend that he believes it gave the mandate to enact all of the policy gold. and listen to the excerpt from the news conference today. >> if we want to have a conference about how to reduce our deficit, let's have that. we've been having that for the last two years and we had an entire campaign about it and by the way, the american people agreed with me. >> megyn: joining us now by phone, mark levin. mark, thanks so much for being back with us. >> my pleasure. >> megyn: explain that to me, you write about your fury and you used the word tyranny. >> that's right, i'm not into imperial presidents who act imperial and speak imperial and obama forgets there's a constitution. yes, keeps telling us he won reelection, congratulations, but guess what, the constitution wasn't up for election, it wasn't for a

referendum. he has to comply with it, too. he was sent back to washington, but he's got a strict list of rules that he has to follow as president. when he gets up there and starts saying, if congress doesn't this i'm going to do this unilaterally aparation of times a man pushing the edge of the envelope as far as i'm concerned, at appointment clause, unilateral on immigration, trashing the commerce clause and tax clause obamacare and the second amendment. issued regulations on first amendment attacking religious liberty. this notion that he might be able to lift the debt ceiling, you know, unilaterally under the 14th amendment. what the hell is this? he was elected president. congratulations. this guy makes richard nixon look like a man who followed the law all the time. i think we have an imperial president, he sounds imperial, he's arrogant as hell and i'm furious about this and i'm going to tell you why.

we're a magnificent country. we don't need to be turned upsidedown. we don't need to run from crisis to crisis to crisis. he's bankrupting this country. he said we had a discussion about the debt. when did we have a discussion about the debt. we've had a debate about taxes. the man is never around to have a discussion about anything. yes, he causes me to be furious when i watch and listen to him. >> megyn: i want to ask you, obviously, our viewers who are on the middle or the left may not be liking what you say about president obama. >> and those are the-- >>, but a lot of complaints about president bush being an imperial president. there is a question whether you give the chief executive too much power whether you may be upset when the chief executive doesn't share your party, and whether the frustration the president is showing with the house republicans and even the talk about eliminating or curtailing the filibuster of minority in the senate. there's an intransigents was

built into the constitution for a reason. >> there was. we can talk about past presidents and lincoln and a grand old time. nobody compares to this guy though. this guy is having a hell after time bankrupting the country, seizing power from congress, threatening the courts, attacking successful people, you know, even when it came to bankruptcy and the automobile industry, rewriting the bankruptcy laws. people better wake up to this. this is not what bush did or what anybody else did. this president is different and in a very, very negative way and the fact that a lot of people voted for him, that's extremely troubling, but the constitution, as i said, that wasn't up for grabs and it's still not up for grabs. >> megyn: you talk about the big lie and you believe that the media, that they're assisting the president when it comes to this debate about guns and this quote, big lie. what's the big lie? >> there are a lot of big lies with this president. first of all, they call it the

pretend media. when he talks about the death ceiling and the 14th amendment, mr. president, that's not actually been done before and that's not the point of it, can you explain that being the constitutional genius you are? no. we have a debate on the debt ceiling. can we actually talk about the debt. oh, all bush's fault. okay. let's talk about guns, there's not a single idea that's leaked out of this white house or pushed on capitol hill that would have prevented the horrific mass murder in connecticut. they're dusting off all their wants and demands and trying to pour it into this tragedy like they always do. we have a second amendment. the second amendment matters. and so it's not up for grabs whether biden and obama or the goofball governor of maryland or the rest of them, but yet, and yet you would think that the constitution is just another statute for these guys to play with. this is why i'm furious, once we lose the constitution, and we're losing it big, what's left? how do we keep these people in

check. >> megyn: how do you see this emerging with the public, if it doesn't sound like he's got the votes in the house to pass gun control legislation and he may in fact resort to executive action, president george h.w. bush issued an executive order on gun control when he was president. he wouldn't be the first to do it, how do you dethe electorate reacting? >> he'll be the first to do whatever he's done. he's proud of it. he it's not a criticism, he wouldn't tabling it as a criticism, he thinks it's a wonderful thing. all president issued an executive order, the question is what executive order, and under what conditions. the purpose of executive order isn't to substitute the president's legislative agenda for congress's legislative agenda. the purpose of an executive order, frankly, is an administrative act where the president who runs the executive branch has to put a policy in place to comply with the law. this president is beating his chest talking about using executive order in lieu of congressional legislation. how is it going to play out? i don't know, not very pretty.

>> megyn: mark levin, thank you. >> god bless. >> megyn: see you soon. coming up, a florida professor gets a lot of attention after claiming that the tragedy of sandy hook elementary school in connecticut pass staged. kelly's court whether he should keep his job.

♪ >> hundreds of brave souls, one word for them are going toe to tail with giant burmese pythons in florida right now. they've grown in recent years and the delicate balance of the florida wild life and we had to send bill down there with a machete. >> reporter: hi, megyn, if killing pythons is your business. business is good in the the state of florida. although at this point, the

tens of thousands of pythons out in the saw grassy swamps are winning the battle. so far zero officially captured and killed. over the weekend, hundreds if not thousands of amateur python hunters stormed the saw grass looking to kill the deadly constrictors. and we hooked up with john, an armed deer hunter with a rifle. we did not see a python, we did come across what we suspect was a fresh python through the mud. >> i'd love to bring in-- >> if you did, shoot it or cut it. >> shoot it first, and then cut the head. once they're past a certain size i'd prefer to know that they're dead. >> reporter: absolutely. an imposing 13-foot burmese python whet the appetites for dozens of python hunters at saturday's event. more than 800 people have registered online from as far away from kentucky and

california, all with python blood lust. shotgun, a machete and a .25 caliber. >> chris. >> the gps. >> and tommy, he's, well, he's got the speed if we need it. >> good luck. >> yeah. >> pythons are an invasive species with no predators that can lay 50 or more eggs per year and that's the problem. pythons pose in florida, a serious ecological problem. as of late yesterday, a band of brothers reportedly killed three pythons, but still not official. we did see one snake, an angry water moccasin, we did not bother with that one. it's poisonners, no prize money. and it's over february 10th, whoever catches the most pythons takes home $1500, the longest python, $1,000. the record in florida is 17 feet 7 inches and if you kill one of those out there, the

idea shoot it once in the head or chop its head off with a machete and 17 footer is going to take the help of several friends. >> megyn: look at you wielding that thing. i'm in the studio with the fancy lighting and hair and makeup. did fox news make you sign a release before they sent you down there? >> no, just plenty of mosquito spray and a lot of water, like 86 degrees on saturday. >> megyn: when you walk along with these guys, are you hoping to find one? are you kind of like a little relieved nothing came up? >> reporter: we were hoping to find one and, he wanted to find it for the money and we want today find it for the video, but we were very cautious without a doubt because pythons maybe 12 feet long and may see only three inches of it and they're well-camouflaged, part of the problem. >> megyn: it's good they sent you and not me. i would be the victim, i wouldn't see it next thing you know, kelly is gone, she's gone and there's a really fat

python, good luck. >> reporter: that's one big tip, they're told don't let the python wrap itself around you, just don't. (laughter) >> okay, we hope you live. >> reporter: make sure that doesn't happen you. >> megyn: see you soon. up next, the president, the debt, and america's future. plus, the night of royalty for this teenager overcoming a life of serious challenges. this is a great story. the story about this homecoming queen and how her classmates have stood by her side since the very beginning. don't miss this. . >> everyone still loves her, i love her, an awesome person to be around. ♪

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>> as you well know, sir, findings votes for the debt ceiling can sometimes be complicated and you yourself voted against the debt increase. what chuck and i are curious about, on your part not to negotiate. >> i am ahappy to have a conversation how to reduce the deficits. i'm not going to have a monthly or every three months conversation about whether or not we pay our bills because that in and of itself does severe damage, even the threat of default hurts our economy, it's hurting our economy as we speak. we shouldn't be having that debate and by the way, the american people agreed with me that we should reduce our deficit in a balanced way that also takes into account the need for us to grow this economy and put people back to

work. >> megyn: well, when it comes to america's 16 trillion dollar debt, and raising our debt ceiling even more in the coming weeks, you just saw, today's hour long news conference summed up in that 60 second exchange and we shortened it down just to give you a flavor. the president does not want to negotiate and he says he has the voters behind him. he wants to congress just let him raise the debt limit or for them to do it. joining me now charles payne from the fox business network and john of left action and wall street journal columnist, the 50 economic indicators that really matter. we were just talking about that sound bite and that exchange with major garrett, formerly of fox and now cbs and the president was testy and didn't seem to much like the question, but was it a fair question? major is trying to get at the fact that the president himself voted against raising the debt limit when he was a senator and now he seems to be incredulous that the fact that the republicans-- not saying no, we're not going to raise it, they say we'll

raise it if you do the following things, cut some spending. >> now when the president is upset when he reminds you he's the president. in other words, if case you don't know they voted for me. listen, it's obviously a great question and this is where he has a big problem. you can't say on one hand that something's inpatriotic and you can't vote against raising a debt ceiling, you can't go that way and later when you have all the cards or most of them, say, you know what, it's my way or the highway and now it's unpatriotic to let the-- t the congress as a failure of was being asked to vote to raise the debt ceiling back when he was a senator. >> right. >> megyn: now he's the leader. >> absolutely. i've got to tell you, look, you pick your battle grounds, okay? the fiscal cliff wasn't the right time and place to discuss this. the debt ceiling is not the right time and place to discuss this. i guess continuing resolution won't be the right time and place. and the president speaks one day maybe some republicans will come over and have tea and crumpets at the white house and have a gentlemanly discussion about this. we're talking action having to be taken and why you have the

giant battlefields, guess what, this is a big battle. >> megyn: john, we were talking about this before we got started how the president seemed to have some swagger and seemed to be confrontational with the republicans isn't seem like somebody, let's look at this together and the republicans aren't in this mindset, either, to his defense. but it doesn't look like our leaders in washington are about to come to some kumbayah, let's washing it out moment? >> i don't think so, in the house, the caucus, half of willing to go into default. and it's like going to dinner and leave before the check comes. >> megyn: it's not just they that wracked up. >> reagan tripled the national debt and george w. bush doubled it. >> megyn: how about president obama? >> that's 60%, maybe reach bushes with the help of house republicans who aren't going to negotiate a balanced plan. the idea of threatening

default is terrible. >> megyn: is that what they're threatening or a red herring, some republicans say if we have to do it we'll do it, but we're thinking we'll get to the point where there'll be government shutdown and we'll be able to pay the bills with tax income coming in at treasury and not going to do anything other than shutting down the government. that's the rift. >> to that point, it's clear the spending issue has to be dealt with at some point and the threat of default gets everyone to make some decisions on that, that might be a good thing. would i say about the president's swagger, i mean, he yes, he won, he's back in office. i think it would behoof him to say, look, i won, but i'm going to sit down with you and talk and discuss this behind closed doors and not sort of, if you like negotiate this through the press. because it's antagonistic, he won, he doesn't need to show he won. he doesn't need to tell everyone he won. he won. >> that's a great point, megyn, you know, you state how the impact this may already be having aim pact on the economy. it wouldn't be if you weren't

going on a cross country tour, if you weren't doing, hyping it, and the topic. the president is helping stoke the flames and most people didn't know what the fiscal cliff was. how many people out there truly understand the debt ceiling debate. if the president keeps coming out and says the republicans are going to shut down the country and kill us, every-- >> that's what he believes is true and according to the latest articles, let me finish up. the latest articles politico, saying that they'll-- >> some members of the g.o.p. feel that way. by the same token, 244 billion dollars that come into the coffers every single month. it's a matter how you allocate them. not as if we're going to completely turn off the spigot. >> megyn: it's not like washington shuts down and cannot function, but this they'll be handicapped if the g.o.p. doesn't get what it wants. >> it's not just 50% of the budget. we're talking cutting enormous parts of the budget. start bringing troops home

from overseas, who are we not going to pay? the idea of default is mind-boggling. >> one way or another we get to be even broker if we don't, you know, if we don't sort out the spending problem longer term. >> megyn: that's how the republicans see it. >> i totally agree, long-term spending. >> when he is the time when we actually make the decisions? >> they're trying to do it, john, when they have leverage over him. some leverage. >> but they already wracked up, wow, i wracked up. >> megyn: they're going to pay those bills. what they're saying, we will pay those bills. we have incoming taxes from the taxpayers that will pay those bills, but as far as keeping the government running, that's going to have to stop for a while until we can work it out. why wouldn't the president agree to spending cuts? why not? >> because if they're going to keep doing this every couple months. >> megyn: right, but we had-- >> and the president in the economy right now. i'm totally in favor of a long-term solution, i expect the four of us to come up with one in an about an hour, is my guess. the outlines are there.

but there's search intransigent the on both sides. and that's what's scaring the market, the business demand. >> megyn: here is the concern among many republican house members and many voters out there, that they believe this president is going to spend us into oblivion and he does not recognize -- he has said he doesn't think we have a spending problem and hear him talking he's made 2.5 trillion in deficit reduction already and people are saying that's funny math. that's just not real spending cuts. and there is a question about whether the republicans will stand firm or whether they will let him, quote, spend us into oblivion. >> we had a successful fiscal cliff deal that adds another 4 trillion dollars to the debt. every time we have one of these great deals we look at it gets bigger and bigger. and the same tax that the president says we should be paying. the bottom line the president doesn't want the kind of spending cuts it takes to bring the real, real legitimate financial, now,

fiscal sanity to this country. and that's the problem. >> he's not using tax at the moment either. some tax -- from my understanding, joe biden was instrumental in getting the tax cuts, extended-- he's got some diplomacy work behind the scenes getting it done and maybe he needs to be doing something in the background. certainly not standing up and saying, i won, you're going to do as i say, you know, and pull faces at people. >> megyn: last word john. >> let's not forget when he came in the the last fiscal year that came over from the bush administration, we had 1.4 trillion dollar deficit that had been a record surplus when bush took place, not blaming bush at all. plenty of blame to go around and recognize where we've come from and where we're going. we need long-term spending cuts, we need to pay the bills that are wracked up. >> let's not rack up any more i think is the argument. >> megyn: good debate. appreciate it. coming up next, the professor

setting off a nationwide controversy after suggesting that the connecticut school massacre in newtown may have been staged. why the university is standing by him in kelly's court next. ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪

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just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? >> kelly's court is back in session. on the docket. the fallout from one man's conspiracy theory about the newtown, connecticut shooting tragedy. testing the limits of free speech. at issue is a florida college professor who suggested on his blog that the massacre of 20 children and six adults may all have been staged. now, there are calls for james tracy to be fired, but the school says mr. tracy has a right to his beliefs and he can express them on his own personal blog. here is the professor explaining his comments. >> in terms of saying that sandy hook, newtown massacre did not take place, is really a simplification, an oversimplification of what i said. i said that i think there may

very well be elements of that event that are synthetic to some degree, that are somewhat contrived. i think overall that the media really did drop the ball. i don't think that they got to the bottom of some of the things that may have taken place there. >> you do not believe that 20 children were killed that day? >> i think most likely that that took place. >> would you write the blog the way that you did or would you do anything differently? >> i don't -- i really don't think so. >> megyn: joining me now lis wiehl, and mark eiglarsh. a lot of people were outraged in the wake of the controversy, you can see he wasn't backing off. he believed it was staged and that the media dropped the ball why pushing into why didn't we hear from more parents and the fact that we didn't hear more distraught parents and assigned police officers to guard them in their moment of turmoil means it's a big coverup.

and the question is the people demanding this by be axed from florida atlantic university, have a case to be made? >> i think they do, megyn, because what he did, he put his thoughts out there as facts and they could be seen as incompetence, gross incompetence, this is not the first time this professor has gone into this. he did the same with 9/11. he did the same with the horrific attack with the movie theater in california-- colorado excuse me, this is his m-o and to walk back, well, it's my first amendment right. >> if he has tenure, mark, is he unfireable from making personal comments like this? >> i believe that he cannot be fired for these at all what i think are offensive and insensitive statements. lis makes a compelling argument, but ignoring the law. if this speech is offensive and insensitive as many people

agree, is that protected by the constitution? it is. look no further than 1977, skokie versus illinois which allowed skinheads to walk down skokie illinois and announce that a hurricane-- that the holocaust never happened. there's no difference between that and also the 4th circuit said it was okay for professor adams to not be -- you could not be promoted because he said some things that they did not agree with. that was not something that you can do. you cannot hold someone back for their thoughts. >> megyn, you asked the question, can a tenured professor be fired for something like this. as a former tenured professor, yes, all the university has to show they're being fired for cause, they did something that was beyond-- >> lis. >> megyn: let her finish, beyond what. >> the course of reasonable employment and here where you go and you publish things, not once, but twice, at least three times, i could find in my research today, where you're putting out, positing

as a fact something that is absolutely not true, that goes to gross incompetence and negligence, can be fired. >> megyn: he said regardless where anyone stands on the second amendment not unreasonable to suggest that the obama administration complicitly or directly oversaw this incident that has short order sparked a national debate on the very topic and he says and that coincidentally on obama's political platform. >> just to be clear i'm not defending his words on this subject matter or what he wrote on 9/11, the jfk, everything, he's just, he's a conspiracy theoryist, however, he put it on his private blog and he cannot be punished for that. >> megyn: mark, take it to the extreme and let's say he goes on the private blog and advocates violence against children, could he be fired. >> that's unlawful. >> megyn: to advocate it, to

say i-- >> depends how he writes. >> megyn: he doesn't encourage violence, he says i like it, i'm in favor of violence against children. >> absolutely, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. >> megyn: i'm stopping short of violence. you can make a statement that's so outrageous and doesn't cross the line of the first amendment and a university should really have to stop and ask themselves whether they want to employ that person. are we at that point now with what he is saying, first amendment and academic freedom, two different things. would i say from a first amendment standpoint on your private blog he has the right to say that, as i as the employer, forced to he keep you in my tenure when you say something like that, that's absolutely untrue and state a fact that's untrue. no, again and again and again no. >> and the victim's families held up for public scrutiny. we've heard from emilie parker, her dad and one couple

sat down with good morning america and gave their heart wrenching account what he says is complete nonsense, for the viewers. this is yet another set of parents that sat down with them. i've got to go out of time. >> posits as a fact not opinion.

>> now, a report on a special night for a high school teen who has overcome a life of challenges, karen mar ham has downs syndrome and her determination to overcome the challenges has apparently made her popular with her classmates, who have now decided to give her a special honor. trace gallagher has her story. >> reporter: it's a great story and i read three or four different versions and this by all accounts does not appear to be students who feel sorry for this girl at all. this appears to be an account of high school students who recognize an exemplary students, an exemplary human

being, as you've said, she has downs syndrome and a bad heart condition her father says she's been through an awful lot. >> she had surgery when she's three and a half months old to correct the heart condition and you know, we weren't given much hope that she's going to be here today. >> reporter: here today, not only is she here today, she is the homecoming queen because through all of her troubles, she just keeps on smiling. that makes her very popular. listen now to her escort as well as her sister. >> i think she's everybody's favorite person in the whole school. everybody loves her, i love her, an awesome person to be around. >> she's my little sister. and treating her like their own daughter, and it's nice to know, know that she's loved. >> reporter: did you see the sister crying there? we saw about nine interviews

and everybody had a tear in their eye through this story. she is the queen of the night and by the way, what does the queen of the night have to say? not much, really. she just keeps on smiling. megyn. >> megyn: great story, great story, trace, thanks for sharing that one. >> reporter: okay. >> megyn: wow, so often you hear bad stories about school children these days, you know? i mean, picking on others who aren't like them and the awful video of the father and son making fun of the girl who had cerebral palsy and for each one you have to remember kids like that and schools like that and children, like that girl who keeps smiling through the adversity that she 's faced and brings a smile to your face and mine. we'll be right back. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day.

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